Jackie Thomae
In Conversation
This week we spoke to Jackie Thomae about her creative journey and the story behind her novel, Brothers.
Interviewed by Zulaikhah Agoro.
ZA: I’d like to start at the very beginning of your writing exploits. What was your earliest experience with telling stories? How did you become a writer?
JT: First of all, I was a dedicated reader (I still am).
In hindsight, reading was probably the most important skill I’ve ever cultivated. It felt more like a superpower than a skill, so I read everything; books for my age, for adults, extremely difficult and terribly boring stuff, manuals, labels on shampoo bottles, anything. I considered reading and writing as siblings. As they get introduced to you as a kid: learn to read and write. I think that making up stories and inventing characters is something children do instinctively in a playful way, like drawing, painting, singing and dancing. And then you get to the point where you either start to refine it, to really learn it or it gets lost like so many other things you did as a child. My first career aspiration was to be an illustrator. I saw myself creating children’s books or graphic novels. But it turned out that I was rather mediocre at it. With writing I never asked myself so many questions about techniques, talent, capability, I had a more natural affinity to it, like with reading. So I had the confidence to write, but had to find the way and the form.
ZA: I like how you describe writing as being a playful thing, we could really use more of that energy even as ‘grown ups’. After a while, most writers we speak to naturally go from simply wanting to write stories to wanting to publish a book and become an author. When did that transition happen for you? What was your first publishing experience like?
JT: It took me nearly twenty years as a writer to decide that I want to be a novelist. I wrote reviews and articles, I wrote for radio and TV, I wrote questions for “Who wants to be a millionaire”, etc. I built up my professional life around my writing and learned a lot. In 2008 a friend of mine asked me if I would write a nonfiction book for women in collaboration with the German newspaper “Süddeutsche Zeitung” and I took this as a great opportunity, but also as an assignment. It sold very well, so my co-writer Heike Blümner and I decided to write the next non-fiction book. The topic was “Ageing”, I was in my late thirties and looking back, I would say that was what led me to my first novel. Up to this point I’ve seen my writing more as a craft, like: If you need something to be written, better call Jackie. Now I had to create art out of it. I had also gotten to a point where I needed something new in my life. Something I could do without other people, and, most importantly, without money. I had an agent since we sold the second non-fiction book, but she told me that my reputation as a non-fiction writer wouldn’t be relevant for a novel. Meaning, I had to finish it on my own and after this we would see. And this is how I did it. I started a novel in episodes about people like me: people whose condition could be summarized as midlife crisis. In 2014 we sold the manuscript to my publisher/editor, with whom I still work today.
ZA: Writing in episodes is a very novel approach. I’d like to talk about this book, ‘Brothers’. Without giving too much away, what is the story about, and why did you decide to write it?
JT: ‘Brothers’ is the story of two men, with a German mother and a Senegalese father. Two mothers, the same father, so half-brothers, to be precise. They both are born and raised in East Germany, where their father came to study in the early 70s. Brother one, Mick, moves as a teenager with his mother from East to West Berlin – because I wanted to tell the story of Berlin in the late 80s and 90s, a really remarkable time for Germany and especially Berlin. So Mick becomes a party man, a raver, a guy who is an enthusiastic lover of life but never knows exactly what to do with this life. Gabriel, brother two, seems always to know what he wants, so he becomes an architect and eventually goes to London. The book revolves around questions such as: Do we determine our own destiny? How important are origin, character, upbringing, our own decisions, etc in shaping our lives?
This novel has many characteristics of a debut, except it is my second one. It is the kind of story, one might say, you carry it within you. The story of your life but fictionalised. It’s not a memoir, but I worked with my family background, my generation, the places I knew – especially Berlin and interwove them into the stories of the two brothers. I could use so much material I had in mind for such a long time. Memories, anecdotes, Zeitgeist, fashion, music, films and the mostly untold story of the many people from African countries who went to the Eastern Bloc to work or study there. Like my father. Like the brothers’ father, Idris.
ZA: I think that is such an interesting way of crafting fiction and perhaps the most authentic as well. Still on the book, ‘Brothers’ was originally published in German in 2019 and has now been translated into the English language. What was the process of translating the story like? How did it feel to see the story change form, so to speak?
JT: I was very lucky to be able to work so closely with the translator Ruth Ahmedzai Kemp. The entire manuscript was complete when I got involved. I came for dessert, so to speak. And it was fun. I had my work now in another language. And German and English match so well plus Ruth is such a skillful translator that I think nothing has been lost in translation. In another language I could have answered the questions, but I would not have been able to work with her on the final details. I’ve learned a lot and I really enjoyed this process.
ZA: As you mentioned, the premise of ‘Brothers’ is that the two main characters Mick and Gabriel are German half-brothers who share the same Senegalese father. They go on to live parallel lives, entirely unaware of each other’s existence, but inherently facing the same struggles. How important is family to the central discourse of the book? Why, in essence, do they have to be brothers?
JT: I like this question very much. It feels so natural to me that they are brothers, but why? My experimental set-up was to have two men of my age, with a similar background and completely different attitudes toward life. I wanted to juxtapose two biographies that had quite a similar starting point, I wanted to tell the story of two men with a similar background like mine who could be my brothers, based on the idea: Imagine there is a person like you, who even looks like you, but who has made completely different decisions in life. And then you will meet him or her…
This idea is not new at all but it’s intriguing. Mirroring each other. Thinking about your parallel existence. Especially when you get older and some of your most important decisions are made.
During my readings in Germany, I talked to many people with fathers who were absent in their lives; black, white, Asian, with half siblings whom they met later in life or have not met yet. If I ever questioned whether it was the right decision, (and I often did), in these moments I knew it was okay to give so much of my personal story away.
ZA: Speaking about having an experimental premise, when you have an idea for a new book, how do you approach the process of creating the book? Do you work with strict outlines or simply go with the flow? How do you build a routine around your writing?
JT: As a former scriptwriter, I’ve learned how important a proper exposé is. I tried it when I started my novels. Also because I once applied for a scholarship, I had to outline what I intend to do. It was a good dry run and I felt well prepared, but my experience is, that a novel follows more its own rules than a script.
So first I need my characters, the people I will spend so much time with. And I know that many writers say so and it sounds magic, but if you have these people, they will tell you their story. If they don’t, you have a problem. Which leads me to your question of the routine – a key word for all freelancers and artists. Before I can establish my daily routine, I need a text of approx. 30 to 80 pages. This is the material that I can take so seriously that I work on it every day (or night). And it is important for days when I don’t have new ideas. I still have something to focus on and can work on refining this text instead.
ZA: Wow, I am taking so many notes. How are you currently applying this method? Are you currently working on anything new? When is your next book coming out?
JT: Yes! My new novel will be published in Germany this summer. This much can be revealed: It is more feminine than Brothers and the title is: Glück. Which means Happiness or Luck. So, wish me luck!
ZA: Haha good luck! Finally Jackie, what is your best advice for aspiring authors?
JT: There are a few things you should be capable of besides writing: Do you like it enough to work on your own? Can you work without feedback for a long time? Do you enjoy to reading your own stuff?
The latter I read from a well-known writer, I guess it was Patricia Highsmith. And it is so true. You must read yourself over and over again. My advice is also to read interviews or biographies of other writers. It is inspiring to learn about the creative process and things like the routines, the problem solving etc. And it is instructive and comforting to see how other people deal with problems you as a writer are familiar with, too: procrastination, time management, money issues, lack of ideas, you name it.
And, finally: If your first draft is rubbish, that doesn’t mean anything. Take this rubbish as an important step and keep writing!
Born in 1972, Jackie Thomae is a German-Ghanaian journalist and writer. She is the author of several works of nonfiction, fiction, literary translation, audio and screen plays. Her novel, Brothers, was on the shortlist for the German Book Prize in 2019, was awarded the Düsseldorf Literature prize in 2020 and is a recipient of the English PEN Translates Award.
