In Conversation

This week we spoke to British-Ghanaian author Jessica George about her debut novel Maame, her writing process and how she kept going after 200+ submission rejections. 

Interviewed by Nancy Adimora.

(No spoilers, we promise.)

NA: I like to start from the beginning, and so I’d love to know where it all started for you. Where would you say your writing journey began?

JG: It started in University. I went to Brunel University to study international business, because I didn't know what I wanted to do career wise. Everyone at the time was saying, ‘do international business because you can do a lot with that degree’ and so I went to do it, and I hated it because I just hate numbers, I hate sales, I hate all of that stuff. I remember thinking I didn't want to return to do international business for the remainder of the two years, and I remember talking to my mum about it, and she said, ‘as long as you have a degree in something, you can pick anything’ and so I picked English literature. That degree wasn’t as great as I thought it would be either. I think after secondary school and college, I was just tired of academia but I couldn't leave at that point. I felt like I'd already taken out a student loan for a year that I wasn’t going to use from Brunel, and now I’d taken another one out for a year in Sheffield, so I needed to keep going. At the time I was trying to find a hobby that I enjoyed, and it was baking at first, but then I got into writing because I always enjoyed descriptive writing at school. And so I started writing in university, just out of loneliness and a lack of knowing what I was going to do in the future.

NA: When you speak to most authors they usually talk about how they’ve been writing for as long as they can remember, so it’s really interesting to hear that you had a completely different experience in terms of starting at university. But how did you transition from ‘I'm doing this for fun’ to ‘I can be a published author’ - was there a moment you remember where things started to become more serious?

JG: I think it was when I actually finished a book. So when I found an idea that I liked and I'd actually finished writing it. I think at the beginning I was just writing bits and pieces here and there and nothing was ever completed. It was only when I realised I had enough words that I thought ‘Oh, this could be a book,’ just because I didn't realise what went into it, really. I just thought if I had enough words, I could make it into a book, and in my mind that meant I could write an entire book again and again. From that point, I knew I could be a writer.

Maame was actually the sixth book that I finished completely, but the first one to be published.

NA: It's so important for aspiring authors to note that the first book that they write may not be the first book they publish, which is something Ayọ̀bámi Adébáyọ̀ mentioned in the conversation we had with her last week. One of the more powerful aspects of that conversation was the point when we asked her who gave her permission to write. Interestingly, in Maame there’s a point where you refer to the Maddie’s very Ghanaian mother and you say ‘nobody told her she could be anything she wanted to be’ - to her, work was just about making enough money to pay bills. So bringing it back to you, at what point did you feel like you could build a sustainable career from your creativity?

JG: I think that was a solo dream. My mum wanted me to have a stable career, and as I get older, I don't blame her so much. Because when I was working at a literary agency, I was working with contracts, and so I was seeing how much the average book was making. My mum wanted me to go into law or be a doctor or engineer or any of those things, but I kind of placated her with always being employed. I knew that if I couldn't follow her dreams, then at least being employed and being able to pay my way was a good plan B. And so I always made sure that I was working at the same time as I was writing. But I never thought I would write full-time, I thought I would write but still have a part time job in an office or something, most likely in the publishing industry. So yeah, I don't think there was ever a moment where I knew I was going to do this full time. 

NA: So now you’re basically living the dream! We love to see it. Ok so pivoting slightly to focus on Maame, as part of the publishing process, your agent, editor, marketer, and publicist will each have a go at explaining what this book is about but I would love to know from your perspective, as the author, what is this story about? 

JG: It's about Maddie, a later bloomer who's kind of telling a story within multiple stories. I think the themes are stories in themselves, and it's just about a protagonist who is coming to life a bit later. I don't like ‘late bloomer’ because it kind of indicates or suggests that life has a specific timeframe, whereas ‘later bloomer’ for me just acknowledges that she's doing things later than her peers have done. So she’s attempting to navigate life amidst grief, unconventional family dynamics, friendships, and an introduction to relationships all at the same time. 

NA: The idea of being a late bloomer or even a later bloomer is really interesting when you put it in context. For example, moving out of your family home the second you finish university to live with roommates isn’t something that feels inherently Ghanaian to me. Of course it happens, but I don’t think it’s expected in the same way as some Western cultures. And so with Maddie being British-Ghanaian, I was fascinated by what sometimes felt like a collision of cultures when we think about her being a later bloomer, because “blooming” obviously means different things to different people from different cultures. I’m not sure how to turn this thought into a question but is there anything you take from that that you’d like to respond to? 

JG: Umm. I don’t know, it all felt quite natural to me, because I didn’t move out of my family home after university, or anything like that — I knew a lot of people who had, but I also knew a lot of people who hadn't. So it's very much based on perspective. I think there’s a certain group of people who will say, ‘Oh, this is very late to be doing all of these things.’ And then you will have another group of people who are like, ‘I'm older than Maddie, and I still haven’t done some of the things she’s done.’

NA: Exactly! Okay, so focusing on Maddie specifically, did you build the story around her? Or was there a particular theme that you were interested in exploring?

JG: Definitely the latter, and the theme was grief. I started off with the emotions of grief, because when I lost my dad in 2020, I started digital diary entries. So I was on a Word document, just writing things down. I kind of left it for a bit, and a couple of months later, I saw it in my recents folder. When I opened it and looked through, I could just kind of picture Maddie in my head. And that's literally how she started. 

NA: It’s fascinating that you started with grief because Maddie’s story is so multilayered - grief feels like one of the many themes you explore, so was it a case of you discovering Maddie and then her character pulling you in all these different directions? 

JG: Yeah, pretty much. I had grief, and then I had Maddie, but I knew I didn't want the story to be entirely about grief. I didn't feel like I could write so much about how confusing and sad grief is. And so that's when I was like, ‘Okay, let's see what else we can explore’ and as soon as I had the idea of her being a later bloomer, I just went from there. 

NA: In each direction you took the story, I kept feeling that the descriptions were almost too perfect - like when you described Maddie’s experience in her workplace, it felt so real that I found myself getting irritated and offended by so much of what was happening. I distinctly remember feeling that only somebody with firsthand experience could have captured these things so perfectly on the page. So whilst I know Maame isn’t autobiographical, how much of it is a reflection of the experiences you’ve had or things you’ve witnessed happen to others?

JG: Yeah, so I would say the truest parts are the emotions between Maddie and her dad, and so much more, maybe 40% more, is what I like to call ‘inspired by’ - so they've either happened to me, but I haven't put it down word for word, and I've added bits and pieces of fiction here and there, or I've seen it happen to others.

NA: I'm not surprised to hear that at all. Okay, so when we talk about the actual writing process, you've come up with Maddie and you know that grief is the central theme that you want to explore, at the point where you sit down and start writing, what does that look like for you? 

JG: So when I first started writing, I was working full time. So I had the mornings - I'm an early riser, so I'm usually naturally up by like 6.30 - I would try to write before work, I would write after work, and I would write a lot on the weekends. I used to be a frequent visitor of the British Library, because I loved sitting there and writing. I work on paper first, and then transfer to laptops. I don't work on laptops straightaway because my mind is too slow for my typing and it bothers me when I have to kind of pause whilst my fingers are on the keyboard. It always feels like my brain is catching up which I don't like, but when I'm writing on paper I feel more at ease to just take my time. I have an A3 notebook that I write in when I’m at home, but when I’m out I take a small notebook and I've got sizes that vary depending on the bag I'm carrying on the day. 

NA: When you're writing on paper, I’m assuming that’s the free flowing part - the part that feels like the spiritual download from heaven. So when you transcribe everything and pull it all together, is that when the editing and refining takes place? 

JG: Yes, exactly. That's where I build my world because when I'm writing free flow, I don't like to describe what the table looks like, I don't like to describe what the weather is doing. I mainly write dialogue when I'm writing on paper, and then when I'm putting it all on the laptop, that's when I add the extra things like, what she can smell, what she can see, what other people are doing, and all of those extras.

NA: That makes perfect sense. I’d love to know how you landed on the title because it’s one of my favourite things about this book. Maame is unmistakably Ghanaian and I can imagine a conversation where somebody tried to convince you to change the title. Why was it important for you to stick with it?

JG: I actually started with Maame as part of the subtitle. So the book was actually originally called Maddie Wright’s Mid-20s because I was very much like ‘nobody in the industry is going to understand what this word means’ - somebody in a bookshop might, but I’d need to get past the agents and the publishers first. So I went for a completely different title even though Maame was all over the content inside. It was actually my literary agent who said, ‘how do you feel about Maame being the title?’ I immediately fell in love with the idea. But, like you said, as we were going to publishers, we had one or two that were like ‘hmmm, how connected are you to the title?’ and that didn’t surprise me at all. 

NA: Oh, that's incredible. I love that your literary agent suggested the title. Apart from Maame being excellent, I really appreciated that it’s a story that feels relatable on so many different levels. Even something as small as Maddie’s mother always answering phone calls on loud speaker made me laugh because I thought ‘wait, are all aunties the same?!’ — but on a more serious level, if you look at Maddie’s mother from one angle, she’s a perfectly normal, loving parent advising Maddie in the best way she knows how, but from another angle, you can see the toxic elements as well. How did you go about building that character, specifically?

JG: Maddie’s mum is one of my favourite characters. I hear back from so many readers now that it’s out in the US, and her mum is often seen in one of two ways. Some just see her as the villain, which wasn't my intention, but people read it how they read it. I see her the same way you do. She’s advising her daughter, who she very much loves, in the best way she knows how. It's just that what she knows, and how she shows and presents her love or opinions is not always great for Maddie.

I really enjoyed writing about Maddie's mum, because I look at her as the original Maame, but without support or therapy. She's just a product of her generation. She was called Maame growing up, she didn't see herself any other way. She cared for family and so she has this kind of misguided mentality where she's like, if I can do all those things, then my daughter who is incredible and very resilient and amazing can also do those things. 

NA: It also goes back to what I said initially about no one telling her she could do what she wants or be who she wants. It’s generational like you said, but it's also cultural - Maddie is British in a way her mum will never be, and her mum is Ghanaian in a way Maddie will never be, so to what extent were you intentionally exploring the tension we see in their relationship that is directly linked to their distinct identities? 

JG: Yeah, that was a very honest conversation for me because I remember when my dad passed, I was kind of struggling with a lot. Both my parents are from Ghana and my grandparents are from Ghana. Me and my siblings are the only ones to ever have been born here, and so I experienced that kind of push and pull of here and there. When my dad passed I had this sudden urge to know everything about him, and then everything about my culture as well, which is a lot. So in the same way Maddie feels like home is London, but deep in her bones she knows her DNA is Ghanaian and she just wants to find a way to bring everything together.

NA: Sticking with the Ghanaian theme, I loved the part where she was at home, surrounded by her family, and one persistent aunty kept insisting that she speaks Twi. I thought that was really powerful. Why were you keen to explore language in this way?

JG: My parents both speak fluent Twi, me and my brothers understand it word for word but we don’t speak it, and it’s very strange because the older I get, the more I think, why dont we speak it? Why weren’t we made to speak it at home? But my parents probably thought we were in the UK and we’d spend most of our lives here so we could get away with just speaking English. But as soon as my dad passed and we were suddenly surrounded by family, it was the complete reverse in that there was no English in the house at all. It was just so fascinating to me how left out I felt, and how not knowing how to speak the language felt like a part of me was missing and I really wanted that to come across with Maddie. She doesn’t speak Twi, or at least she doesn't realise that she can speak conversational Twi, and she perhaps thought she didnt need to learn. But for her, speaking Twi signifies a moment of coming home, and realising you’re with loved ones, you’re safe, and you can communicate with people who are going to understand you, no matter what you say. 

NA: As a reader it was so powerful to see the way language could bridge that gap for her. I really appreciated that, and there’s a quote by Aminatta Forna that we love at AFREADA and it says, if you want to know a country, read its writers. Whilst this story is firmly rooted in the UK, what do you think Maame can tell us about Ghanaian culture? 

JG: For me I feel Ghanaian culture just means community. I think, for both myself and Maddie, it just feels like a way of belonging. And I think it’s quite hard to describe because it didn’t hit me until my dad passed. I just felt like amidst all my family, amidst all of the Twi I could perfectly understand but couldn't necessarily speak, I just felt so grounded and safe, and that feeling was something I didn't want to take for granted. So for myself and Maddie, Ghanaian culture is just about family and community. 

NA: That’s such a beautiful answer. We’re coming in to land now, so if you could give one piece of advice to aspiring authors, what would it be? 

JG: It’s a cliche but it’s got to be ‘keep writing’ and that’s only because it’s a tried and tested method for me. I’ve amassed over 200 submission rejections from the books that I’ve written and there were many points during the eight years that I’ve been writing that I thought I should just give up because you’re constantly being told that this is not the career for you. But imagine if I had. Maame was named a New York Times Bestseller last night, so…

NA: (Ladies and gentlemen, at this point I screamed)

Jessica George was born and raised in London to Ghanaian parents and studied English Literature at the University of Sheffield. After working at a literary agency and a theatre, she landed a job in the editorial department of a publishing house. She now lives in North London with an incontrovertible sweet tooth and the knowledge that she can consume half a cake by herself if left to her own devices. Maame is her debut novel.

You can read an exclusive excerpt of Maame here. And if you enjoyed our conversation, drop a comment below!